I think college degree requirements for jobs exacerbate inequality. The only thing they tell me is that the candidate had enough time and money to finish the degree. And there are certain groups in America who have more time and money than other groups in America. I don’t think the requirement is really there for filtering skills - managers just want employees who are like them and don’t want to deal with employees who can’t keep the lights on or come in on time because they can’t afford to keep their cars maintained or use vernacular language that doesn’t sound like their own.
Teh Colonel is looking to have his doctor who got their credentials from a Cracker Jack box.
They often do.
Take our profession for example. Do you necessarily need a college degree to be an actuary, particularly when the examinations provide pretty good evidence of one’s mathematical ability to perform that part of the job?
I know one well respected FCAS (now retired) that didn’t have a college degree. A firm he was with reportedly denied him a partner position due to lack of degree. He jumped ship and went to another firm that made him partner.
It’s particularly bad in the US. In other countries you just need a bachelor’s degree to practice medicine.
It is bad in the US. My sister is a physical therapist - only a bachelors was needed when she graduated college and today there are doctorate programs for it. My school upped their actuarial science program to a masters a few years after I graduated as well, which is pointless given the number of career changers in the field and the exam process. I generally agree this is an additional challenge for those starting off with limited resources.
Your post doesn’t do much to support your position in the OP of saying that the college degree requirement should be done away with.
There was a time in the US where one didn’t need any college education to “practice” medicine.
Perhaps it should be. Medical school is pretty much vocational except that you don’t get paid, unlike apprenticeships. Although I guess you do for residency but it’s a pittance considering the amount of work involved + student loan payments. Can doctors be trained on the job? Probably.
You used to be able to practice law in many states if you just passed the bar exam, and there were a number of self educated lawyers. Historically something similar to apprenticeship was the common practice rather than law school. Now most states require a law degree. Only 4 states allow you to sit for the bar exam without any law school: CA, WA, VT, VA. All 4 states still require something similar to an apprenticeship, and some of the requirements are a big commitment. Two other states require some law school but you can substitute some law school with an apprenticeship before you can sit for the bar exam: NY and Maine.
I was well on my way to ASA without a degree. left the exam process and got a degree later, but obv. the lack of a degree didn’t impede me from getting the credentials. Whether it would’ve affected my career, I dunno since I did a 180 before getting that far.
Yeah dood. Why get the degree when you can just like, do the work and get paid.
Back in the days of the Actuarial Outpost, I started a thread titled “Three Year Bob”. Bob wanted to be an actuary, went to college and focused for three years on the courses that seemed relevant for an actuary and left all the “distribution requirements” till his fourth year.
He was looking for a job at the end of his third year. I compared to Andy, who went the traditional four year route, had the same grades as Bob in their overlapping courses, and had the same exams as Bob.
Who do you hire? My recollection is pretty mixed responses. I was on Bob’s side – initiative, out of the box thinking, bottom line focus. But, lots of people wanted that four year degree.
Send them to the Thunderdome imo
a lot of companies are removing college degree requirements.
having a degree is definitely feeling more like a joke and a red flag. there are so much free shit out there anyone who wants to bankrupt themselves to passively learn some irrelevant topics seems like a terrible decision maker.
colleges are a scam imo. they are way overpriced and for those who have rich parents who pay for it, it’s like camp for adults.
college did very little to help me pass exams. although, i did take review classes outside of my useless college that did help.
i don’t think anything i learned in college helped me in the real world.
maybe it’s a good idea for doctors or other fields where it’s hands on. for actuaries, you can just study this stuff outside of an overpriced classroom.
I think the degree requirement is the only thing stopping some kids from getting their FSA straight out of high school.
We don’t need another hero!
But Foucault made me strategy good
Just finished up a book on Chester A. Arthur, and during his Presidency, he started federal civil service reform.
Part of the proposals was competitive examinations for certain positions, and one objection against that was that it would favor men who went to college, which, of course, was far more exclusive then.
Arthur himself had been a customs house collector in NYC before he was President, which was a remunerative post which he got through his political connections. It was expected that he, and his employees, would “donate” part of their salaries to the Republican party machine in New York in “gratitude” for their positions. Arthur lost his position because this was looking bad, and Rutherford B. Hayes started cleaning house. There were failed attempts at reform under Hayes, then failed attempts under Garfield… and finally it got started under Arthur.
Originally, they limited which positions were affected by competitive exams. And one of the reforms was making it illegal for federal employees to campaign on their jobs.
College is definitely a way for lower class people to get white-collar jobs.
It’s also a way to rack up $1.7 trillion in debt.
A good deal of college is “signaling”. You don’t actually learn stuff you will use on the job, but the stuff you had before college that it will take to get a degree is also stuff employers might want.
A degree requires some combination of: quick learning, time management, and following orders. Some people get through with more of one, others with more of another, but lots of employers consider all of those useful traits.
More selective schools find high school kids who are higher by those measures, so their grads may be more desirable.
If we could find a way to give employers the information that the college admissions officers got, and also find some half way house where kids can live away from there parents but in a somewhat protected environment for four years while doing basic work, we could get rid of (maybe) half the demand for college grads.