# CL, EL, Cups and non-EPL League discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Sports\ **Created:** [February 17, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122 "2021-02-17T22:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grizz](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Grizz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Grizz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/23 "2021-04-19T13:57:31Z")
I am not a soccer “fan” really, but I know some stuff from playing the FIFA video games. When I saw this Super League my first thought was that it sounded cool. But I haven’t seen anyone agree anywhere. The downside is that smaller clubs will make less money, and traditions broken or something? As a casual fan what should I dislike? I can understand die-hard fans of certain clubs being upset with major changes like this. Maybe I’m too American-sport-ized. ---
**Author:** ![greenman](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/greenman/32/1904_2.png) [@greenman](https://community.goactuary.com/u/greenman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/24 "2021-04-19T14:52:07Z")
> [@Grizz](#): > > Maybe I’m too American-sport-ized. Yes, it is the complete Americanization of Euro soccer. It is basically closing the door to the open system that soccer is based on in Europe. And it just so happens that 3 of the biggest teams pushing for this are owned by Americans. Arsenal - Stan Kroenke - (Rams, Nuggets, Avalanche) Liverpool - John Henry - (Red Sox) Man United - Joel Glazer (Buccaneers) ---
**Author:** ![greenman](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/greenman/32/1904_2.png) [@greenman](https://community.goactuary.com/u/greenman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/25 "2021-04-19T15:08:15Z")
> [@ArthurItas](#): > > I’m guessing that the threats of banning players from world cup play may be toothless. That would probably scuttle this if true. If players aren’t allowed in WCs and continental cups, Bayern not participating has made Germany the heavy favorites for the WC and Euros every year going forward. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/26 "2021-04-19T15:08:35Z")
> [@Grizz](#): > > 1. The downside is that smaller clubs will make less money, and traditions broken or something? > > 2. As a casual fan what should I dislike? > > 3. Maybe I’m too American-sport-ized. 1. The tradition is that clubs are promoted or relegated within their domestic federation set-up based on merit – i.e., the results of the season. And teams play in the Champions/Europa Leagues based on results of the season (or winning a domestic cup). This breakaway “league” would just play each other as well as play in the Domestic leagues, and the owners would rake in the money and maybe try to make a better team, though there is no incentive to try anymore. 2. You should dislike owners that concentrate only on profits. (Yes, this is how some American sports owners are. They should be disliked.) 3. Probably. I’ve always found it peculiar that the billionaire owners here (some of whom are owners of some of these soccer teams over there (LIV, MUN, ARS) prefer the socialist construct of their leagues, working together for the greater good (all of their own pockets), not worrying about fielding a quality team, because the worst team gets better draft picks (“to each according to his needs”), which becomes an actual strategy which directly opposes the objective of the game. Oh, and let’s see which Arab-owned team moves to Doha when they don’t get the stadium they want from the locals. ---
**Author:** ![ArthurItas](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/arthuritas/32/63_2.png) [@ArthurItas](https://community.goactuary.com/u/ArthurItas)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/27 "2021-04-19T15:21:26Z")
Plus, 2 of the 3 are potentially not getting that sweet Champions League/Europa league money next season based on where they stand in the table now. Throw Tottenham in that boat too. No need to try to improve your club to qualify now based on merit. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_Rock](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/a4c791/32.png) [@Kid\_Rock](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Kid_Rock)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/28 "2021-04-19T15:26:33Z")
They are addressing the issue that too many crappy clubs get into Champions League which lessens the competition. If that’s the case, go deeper into the big leagues for qualification and have more play-ins. The unforeseen issue on this is that only 3-4 teams can contend in a given year and a perennial league power might end up 10th 3-4 years and the owner stops investing money to win and just takes the TV money. What to dislike, Arsenal’s inclusion in the core group. They will never contend in this group. NEVER. This is not 2004. The landscape has changed. Agree that city movement could become an issue. That would be funny to watch a big team moved to Russia or Arabia area. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/29 "2021-04-19T15:40:48Z")
Good (?) news is it won’t start up until after WC2022. But, it would be interesting to see what National teams would look like if players were banned from being on certain teams. USA might even have a shot, though I’m guessing South American county FA’s won’t be banning their players. I see it’s only Euro FA’s threatening that. I can wait a few days to see someone’s take. On England, I count 13 out of the 24 on the current wiki page. ---
**Author:** ![Grizz](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Grizz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Grizz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/30 "2021-04-19T18:04:33Z")
I must be missing a detail because I still don’t fully get it. These super teams are still competing in their domestic leagues, right? (Premier League, for example) These super teams were never going to be relegated realistically anyway, why would this additional competition change relegation/promotion? Are these super teams opting not to play in the Champions league (if they qualified)? Is this super league not just additional games, are they replacing otherwise scheduled games? ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/31 "2021-04-19T18:35:28Z")
> [@Grizz](#): > > 1. These super teams are still competing in their domestic leagues, right? (Premier League, for example) > > 2. These super teams were never going to be relegated realistically anyway, why would this additional competition change relegation/promotion? > > 3. Are these super teams opting not to play in the Champions league (if they qualified)? > > 4. Is this super league not just additional games, are they replacing otherwise scheduled games? 1. Currently, they are. Those FA’s might not let them play in the top league, though. Not sure how, but there might be a way. 2. Shit happens. Their issue is more about having to play well enough to make the Champions League and the money made from that participation. ARS and TOT are on the outside at the moment, but, if they didn’t HAVE to be good enough and STILL make money, well, the owners prefer that. 3. I think if this Super League starts to exist, then these teams would be removed from Champions League consideration. 4. They would likely replace Champions League games from these teams’ schedules. But they’d ALWAYS play them, even when they eventually suck (because too many players would opt out in order to stay on their National teams, which is another stick being swung at this proposal. Probably all a bluff anyway, to get more money from UEFA. I think a better compromise would be to cut the Champions League team numbers down, but make bigger groups, so more games against “super teams.” So, suppose 16 teams instead of 32. Top three associations get three teams; next two get two teams; next one gets one team; two slots reserved for prior year’s Champions League and Euro League champions – if already qualified, then next associations get one team each. Two groups of eight, so 14 games each in group. Top four of each qualify for knockout stage. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/32 "2021-04-19T18:47:51Z")
Also, note that the Champions League had 79 teams participating. 26 teams are placed in Group Stage automatically, while the rest fight for the final six slots. The losers of each qualifying round are sent to the Europa League’s qualifying rounds or groups stage. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/33 "2021-04-19T18:59:28Z")
Some Danish guy says that three of the semifinalists in THIS year’s Champions League could be ousted by Friday, leaving, I guess, PSG as Champions League Champions. > EFA is threatening legal action against those 12 teams and could, in theory, ban them from future competitions. Jesper Møller, Danish FA chairman and UEFA ExCo member said to [Danish outlet DR Sport that semifinalists involved in the Super League](https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/super-league-uefa-exco-member-says-real-madrid-chelsea-man-city-will-be-removed-from-champions-league-semis/) – Real Madrid, Chelsea and Man City – will be expelled from this season’s competition, along with the remaining breakaway participants, by Friday. > > “[Real Madrid, Manchester City and Chelsea] are going out, and I expect that to happen on Friday,” Møller said. “And then you have to see how to finish the Champions League.” > **[European Super League collapse explained: What's next? Real Madrid's...](https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/european-super-league-collapse-explained-whats-next-real-madrids-florentino-perez-and-barcelona-speak/)** > > Real Madrid and Barcelona have broken their silence on the botched breakaway league ---
**Author:** ![Grizz](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Grizz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Grizz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/34 "2021-04-19T19:02:41Z")
Kicking teams out of this year’s Champions League is a great way to avoid a super league forming /s ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_Rock](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/a4c791/32.png) [@Kid\_Rock](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Kid_Rock)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/35 "2021-04-20T00:14:58Z")
Threatening it may impact Man City. Madrid and Chelsea have won. City may pull out of Super League just for a chance. I know it may not, but would be good to make the threat anyway. Only good thing about potential for Super League is it may mean Liverpool gets Mbappe and let the Hanson chants begin with each goal, MMMBop ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 1:08am UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/36 "2021-04-20T01:08:40Z")
If Mbappe doesn’t want to play for France anymore, then sure. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/37 "2021-04-20T16:45:00Z")
Pep says it best: [https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-city/story/4365187/guardiola-critical-of-super-league-proposal-it-is-not-fair](https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-city/story/4365187/guardiola-critical-of-super-league-proposal-it-is-not-fair) > “It is not a sport where success is already guaranteed or it doesn’t matter if you lose. I said many times, I want the best competition. It is not fair when one team fight, fight, fight at the top and cannot be qualified because it is just for a few teams.” ---
**Author:** ![ArthurItas](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/arthuritas/32/63_2.png) [@ArthurItas](https://community.goactuary.com/u/ArthurItas)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/38 "2021-04-20T17:02:39Z")
> [@Grizz](#): > > I must be missing a detail because I still don’t fully get it. > > These super teams are still competing in their domestic leagues, right? (Premier League, for example) > > These super teams were never going to be relegated realistically anyway, why would this additional competition change relegation/promotion? > > Are these super teams opting not to play in the Champions league (if they qualified)? > > Is this super league not just additional games, are they replacing otherwise scheduled games? Think of it like the NCAA. Say the big football schools decided to get together and run their own postseason tournament. Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia, Notre Dame, and Texas get automatic bids every year, plus they’ll invite one wild card every year to round out the 8 team field. Doesn’t affect the regular season at all, and most of these teams are in consideration for the national championship series anyway. The 7 teams make a lot more money as they get the guaranteed big pot of revenue to split every year among themselves. You could do the same thing with the NCAA BB tourney. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/39 "2021-04-20T17:08:51Z")
Along those lines, think of the UEFA as being in charge of the Bowls, saying that those teams cannot play in the bowl games. And think of each FA as a conference, threatening to kick the teams out of their conferences for essentially creating their own conference. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/40 "2021-04-20T18:57:38Z")
The matches are too long?? It’s one of the shortest-total-duration sports event there is. [https://www.espn.com/soccer/real-madrid/story/4365073/real-madrid-president-perez-football-matches-must-be-shortened](https://www.espn.com/soccer/real-madrid/story/4365073/real-madrid-president-perez-football-matches-must-be-shortened) Just another tail-wagging-dog advocate. The “Give the people what they want” kind of attitude that reaches for the LCD. If some people don’t like your sport, tough shit. There are plenty of people who do like your sport and don’t want it changed. I know you want to take everyone’s money, but you just can’t. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/41 "2021-04-20T19:56:29Z")
And, bluffs called: [https://www.espn.com/soccer/chelsea/story/4365271/sources-chelseaman-city-to-ask-out-of-super-league-in-shock-reversal](https://www.espn.com/soccer/chelsea/story/4365271/sources-chelseaman-city-to-ask-out-of-super-league-in-shock-reversal) ---
**Author:** ![dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@dr\_t\_non-fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dr_t_non-fan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122/42 "2021-04-20T22:12:33Z")
And out go Athletico and Barca. > **[Barcelona, Chelsea, Manchester City, and Atletico Madrid are all pulling out...](https://www.businessinsider.com/european-super-league-chelsea-pulling-out-reports-say-2021-4)** > > The decisions to leave the European Super League came after immediate backlash from fans and other soccer clubs worldwide. [Previous page](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.goactuary.com/t/cl-el-cups-and-non-epl-league-discussion/2122.md?page=3)