I think you need to quantify these things, because to me it sounds like a vague laundry list.
Ideally, you’d have some objective numbers-- ie. how much nore in taxes will you pay for (various things).
Laundry lists can sound real bad or just fine depending on which side of the bed you wake up on.
Well, put it this way:
In my current tax band in the UK, I have a marginal tax rate of about 60%.
And thats probably going to get worse.
Lol, that’s a good example of not quantifying.
How much do you pay in taxes in total?
How much in some other place?
And how much if it gets worse?
There is no place in Europe where I would be worse off.
My point is that I pay very high marginal rates of tax but get precisely zero services in return.
Other high earners in the UK have made the same determination.
People respond to incentives. Jack up taxes to this extent and people respond by not working more (as you only get 40% back), reducing their hours (easier on health), or flat out leaving the country for a better quality of life.
I’ve been contemplating the opposite lately-- moving to a town with unaffordable housing and absurd taxes… because it would be cheaper than private school.
I follow your argument, and I’m not saying that it’s invalid. But you should quantify it all the same.
Also to add to the basic premise, the world and the country have been falling apart my entire life…and haven’t actually fallen apart.
I’ve been hearing about high income earners getting pushed out of Canada due to taxes for 40+ years and it hasn’t really happened.
Despite all the current problems, my family is successful and happy, my kids are the same, my mother lives a sustainable and happy life even if she’s not well off. Things are pretty good, all things considered.
And the one really high income earner I know well has suggested that he should be paying substantially more taxes in the form of an inheritance tax because he’s got more than he can spend, and too much to leave his kids. And he figures he built his company on infrastructure built by taxes/govt/society.
I have lived in Canada and the problems the UK has are far, far worse.
The reality is that the UK is still a feudal state. It has never modernised itself.
Canada can move forward because it is not constantly being economically strangled by rules that are very much feudal in origin property-wise. The UK limped along with this structure while it could still keep extracting from its former colonies abroad.
With that link gone, it is now sinking.
The reality is that the UK is a poor country, with a small slice of well off professionals, and an even smaller slice of very wealthy people.
I don’t see that in Canada.
Did the abortion debate just jump the shark?
I haven’t actually lived in Canada or the UK, but I think a big distinction too is the embedded notion of class in the UK which doesn’t really exist in the same way in the US or Canada. (although I’m sure some people on this forum will strongly contend the modern US has it)
That’s a long way of avoiding the point that you’ve got a roof over your head, your family’s fed and you earn a good income.
Things aren’t that bad for most of us.
Thats a very slippery slope. i.e. “it could be worse”
People work hard in order to maximise their quality of life.
At a certain point, when working hard does not have the same utility, society stops working (and you start getting poorer very fast). If the UK had Canada’s tax structure and services, we would not be having this conversation.
I have no issue with high taxes if I get services in return. Right now in the UK that is simply not happening.
Example:
Say I am offered a promotion that pays me an extra £50k gross but means I work 15hrs more/week (as it would be at a more senior level with more responsibilities).
I would only get £20k net (60% marginal tax rate) from those extra 15hrs/week and I would also be facing having to pay higher prices for private services (as I cannot access public services due to masses of older folks blocking things).
People in the UK actively refuse promotions because of this sort of problem.
Why kill yourself working more hours for higher pay if you get so little in return?
Thats effectively what kills off aspiration in a country.
You sound more American by the minute!
At a certain point, when working hard does not have the same utility, society stops working (
Yes yes, I’ve heard that for decades.
Four buddies go to a restuarant every week. The rich guy pays every week. the other three free load their lunch. Eventually the rich guy decides he’s not paying for lunch and doesn’t show up, and the three freeloaders have to pay for their own lunch and there’s no money for it.
That’s the parable I heard in the 1980’s. It’s false. The taxpayers aren’t leaving en masse.
It’s not ‘it could be worse’. It’s ‘despite all the complaining, and the actual problems, things are really pretty good, and better than a lot of places’.
Yes.
But its also one of the reasons why the UK is not growing economically speaking.
Working overtime is a bad idea. Go take care of your kid instead.
So, you’re not making use of NHS services, the roads, being protected by police and the military…
Is there a UK equivalent for Social Security for providing retirement and disability income (even if you’re going to be getting less out of it than you paid in)?
Well, sure. But we dont live in Timbuktu.
Comparing against poorer countries serves no real purpose.
What matters is peer countries - so developed ones like US, Canada, EU, Australia etc.
And on that metric, the UK is getting poorer and living standards are getting worse.
Come on over. We’ve got a whole selection of states to choose from.
NHS has a waiting list of 8 MILLION procedures.
Roads are full of potholes and congested.
SS here is the State Pension which is about £10k/year.
Current retirement age is now 67, which will be about 70 when reach that age.
As you can see, we don’t really get “services” in return.